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Highnumbers · Th at vi:29 AM

@JDZ excellent post, thanks for the detailed info, Very helpful and insightful.

That Automobile Fernandes looks splendid, information technology seems like that make is often left out of the give-and-take with Greco/Tokai (at least to those of us not deep into this field of study).

Merrywoodsman

Dibs on Brazen Beak for my adjacent band name!

Badstrat · Thursday at 1:07 AM

The model ranges were very large and things changed a off-white bit for Greco from year to year, less so for Tokai and yous need to broaden the brand discussion a little bit and also whether the focus is on really good Strats or really authentic copies of vintage originals.
1976, or really going into 1977, is when things changed pretty significantly. For Greco, that'southward when the quality of the guitars went up significantly to the betoken they actually created a line of custom shop models they called Project Series. These were special gild above the typical catalog models. At that time as you get upwards the models the differences were the wood used, pickups and the finish. The Greco'southward from that time are really dainty, but still weren't highly accurate copies of vintage original Strats.

Here's an all original '77 Greco SE 1200, tiptop model in the Project Series. Trunk is two slice center seam Sen, cervix ane slice hard maple. Finish is lacquer and pickups are DiMarzio FS-1 on this model, although this is when Maxon started making some excellent unmarried coils which were used on other models.

Hither's another model from '77, an SE 700 which they chosen 'Early Sixties', which doesn't brand sense as it has a large headstock and four bolt cervix. Pickups on these are Maxon Excel which are first-class, finish on these is lacquer. Great guitars, actually comfortable and like shooting fish in a barrel to play.

Then Tokai arrived and changed everything.

What Tokai was the outset to practice actually in 1978 was to brand very accurate copies of vintage originals. They raised the bar in a big fashion, got their hands on vintage original guitars and copied them. As you went upwards the product line the models get more accurate with cervix profiles that matched the years, parts that were interchangeable with Fender, pickups voiced based upon vintage originals, tuners, string trees, pickguards, etc. Again, they had a big product range, better models got Sen bodies and nitro.

And so for Springy Sound the ST-lxxx is the the really desirable model, copy of a '54 Strat with really nice Soft V neck, Sen body and cute nitro finishes. Here'southward a '78 ST-80 case queen I have, which became more than accurate equally they progressed, but beautifully made

In 1980 Greco launched the Super Real models, which Similar Tokai were washed equally very accurate, year specific copies. A Greco SE 800 is their version of a '54 Strat and has a massive soft Five neck and aluminum pickguard, as well came in a 'lx version. Greco still had the SE 700, which in the Super Real era became a copy of a lxx'southward Strat with three bolt cervix (with no issues) and competed with Tokai's Silver Star line. In 1982 Fujigen won the contract to make Fender Nihon guitars, and then that was the end of Fender based Greco models.

Here's a Super Real era 1981 Greco SE 800, lacquer finish with 2 slice alder body

Fernandes launched their ain actually accurate copies in 1981 with their Revival Series models. The RST models were made equally copies of '54, '59, '57 and '64 Strats. RST-eighty models came in nitro and were the '54 and '59 copies, once more with year specific neck profiles. Higher models got two piece centre seam bodies, vs three piece bodies. Fernandes pickups have vintage braided material leads. Each of the brands kept upping the level of detail and accurateness they went to.

Here's an '81 Fernandes RST-80 '59 in candy apple red nitro with very fine checking over much of the body.

There were also boutique brands equally early on as 1978 where you could get Strats with braz boards and exotic woods bodies.
And all kinds of special models.

And then differences in models and brands basically the type and beauty of the woods, how many piece bodies, the pickups used and poly vs lacquer finishes. I can explain some of the differences in models that came in poly, lacquer and actual nitro if you like.

I have a couple of Greco Super Sound, i Dec 1981 and one April 1982 and they are both alder. I see you take that SE 800 that is besides alder. Would yous think these alder bodied Grecos are fairly uncommon ?

December 1981 Greco Super Sound

Apr 1982 Greco Super Audio

Shark Sandwich

wow, very cool guitar! I've seen pictures of '54 Strats that have that same, almost 3D blazon of grain. I would hold some '54s likely were made of Sen Ash.

riscado · Thursday at 3:43 AM

I currently own a couple of SE-500 and SE-600 Grecos from 79-81.

Amazing strats.

You tin buy these all twenty-four hours long for sometimes well under $300 at yahoo japan online auctions. I should know I've bought at least 5 that way.

Cat has been out of the handbag anyway. They are superb instruments with cracking pickups at affordable prices. And a smashing homage to the original fender stratocaster.

Also as much as JV fender/squiers from early 80s are cool and fabricated at the same factory. They are unlike and to me the 79-81 (early 82) grecos are quite a bit more than special.

@WornFrets that's a cool guitar you got at that place, savour it.

yucatown

Interesting that we're now cool with Japanese copies, when it merely seems like yesterday that this was a very frowned-upon niche :dunno

Cool guitar, OP.

skydog

@JDZ excellent post, cheers for the detailed info, Very helpful and insightful.
That Machine Fernandes looks excellent, it seems similar that brand is oftentimes left out of the discussion with Greco/Tokai (at to the lowest degree to those of us not deep into this subject).

I've noticed that likewise, and I think it'south due in large function to the sustainer models (Nomad e.g.) that Fernandes released 20 some years ago.

WordMan · Thursday at viii:06 AM

Interesting that we're at present absurd with Japanese copies, when information technology just seems like yesterday that this was a very frowned-upon niche
Absurd guitar, OP.

Shhh. Let'due south just savour it :aok

In all seriousness, things are and then nutso-bongo right now - that's a technical term - that this Forum is getting a steady stream of "Hey, how Okay is this?" whether it be age/era, mods & status issues, fakery, etc. The quality of some of these JV guitars are far above the prices they've been getting, and relative to other options, such equally most seventy'southward Fenders.

And having a resource similar John / @JDZ and other JV experts is gonna thing equally this market moves. So many layers and variations. John, did Navigator do "Strat" types? Dare I ask: How amazeballs are they?

yucatown · Thursday at 10:01 AM

Shhh. Permit'southward but savour it
In all seriousness, things are so nutso-bongo right now - that'southward a technical term - that this Forum is getting a steady stream of "Hey, how Okay is this?" whether it be historic period/era, mods & status problems, fakery, etc. The quality of some of these JV guitars are far above the prices they've been getting, and relative to other options, such as most seventy's Fenders.

And having a resource like John / @JDZ and other JV experts is gonna matter as this market moves. So many layers and variations. John, did Navigator exercise "Strat" types? Dare I ask: How amazeballs are they?

So, the guidelines for this subforum should be lifted then. We should now allow word of any 70s or 80s guitars. I have nothing against copies. To each their own, and they seem like great guitars. Only if the guidelines can be broken one time, so they're no longer guidelines but mere suggestions.

Sampler

Here's another model from '77, an SE 700 which they called 'Early on Sixties', which doesn't brand sense as it has a big headstock and four bolt neck. Pickups on these are Maxon Excel which are fantabulous, finish on these is lacquer. Cracking guitars, actually comfortable and easy to play.

If that'southward the one I played I still regret not ownership that guitar from you… it was an centre opening experience. Great guitar.

WordMan

So, the guidelines for this subforum should be liften and so. We should at present allow discussion of any 70s or 80s guitars. I have nothing against copies. To each their own, and they seem like great guitars. Only if the guidelines can be cleaved once, then they're no longer guidelines but mere suggestions.

Information technology feels more like there should be a few standing Is this Okay threads, where folks can enquire questions about heavily-modded one-time guitars, potential fakery, etc. This could serve as 1 for JV guitars.

Ben Pinkus

Dearest the grain on that! Concord that some of the Tokai's from that era are amazing also...may demand to get on a search...

HNGD

TopJimmy5150

Love this thread, but unfortunately the prices on these guitars has jumped upwardly over the terminal few years. I got my '85ish Squier Strat in 2001 for $250. I'm glad I have it.

yucatown

It feels more like there should be a few standing Is this Okay threads, where folks can ask questions about heavily-modded old guitars, potential fakery, etc. This could serve equally 1 for JV guitars.

And who decides what'south ok and what isn't? Popular opinion? A select few? I'm all for opening things up if nosotros're going to get in that location, rather than a few standing threads that are ok while others aren't.

WornFrets

And then, the guidelines for this subforum should exist liften and so. We should now allow discussion of whatsoever 70s or 80s guitars. I take nothing against copies. To each their own, and they seem like peachy guitars. Simply if the guidelines can exist broken once, then they're no longer guidelines only mere suggestions.

Please right me if I'g wrong, but my understanding was that discussion of (at least) 70's instruments was never off the table. There are several active threads not counting this one regarding lxx's guitars.

While some members take expressed their opinion that, say, a 70'due south Fender isn't a vintage guitar, per the rules of this forum, they are considered "transitional vintage". The members who feel strongest about this tend to simply steer clear of those threads as of late, which has immune them to focus on the content virtually of import to them and has allowed members who desire to post nigh "transitional vintage" guitars to practise so without being chased off. It's been downright peaceful here.

I felt that this one was on the cusp enough, and was directly related to / inspired by a really good discussion in this forum from a few weeks ago about vintage Strats that included the almost respected and knowledgable members of this forum.

Rather than derail what I find to exist a bang-up discussion and sharing of information, I would encourage you to report this thread or reach out to a moderator to have it moved.

WordMan

Please right me if I'one thousand wrong, just my understanding was that word of (at least) lxx'southward instruments was never off the tabular array. In that location are several active threads not counting this one regarding 70'due south guitars.
While some members accept expressed their opinion that, say, a 70'due south Fender isn't a vintage guitar, per the rules of this forum, they are considered "transitional vintage". The members who feel strongest virtually this tend to simply steer clear of those threads equally of late, which has allowed them to focus on the content virtually important to them and has allowed members who want to postal service near "transitional vintage" guitars to do so without being chased off. It's been downright peaceful here.

I felt that this 1 was on the cusp enough, and was straight related to / inspired by a actually good discussion in this forum from a few weeks ago most vintage Strats that included the virtually respected and knowledgable members of this forum.

Rather than derail what I find to exist a great discussion and sharing of information, I would encourage you lot to report this thread or reach out to a moderator to accept it moved.

Well stated, John.

Fitzer

I currently own a couple of SE-500 and SE-600 Grecos from 79-81.
Amazing strats.

You can buy these all 24-hour interval long for sometimes well under $300 at yahoo nippon online auctions. I should know I've bought at to the lowest degree 5 that manner.

Cat has been out of the bag anyhow. They are superb instruments with great pickups at affordable prices. And a great homage to the original fender stratocaster.

Also as much as JV fender/squiers from early 80s are cool and made at the same manufactory. They are different and to me the 79-81 (early on 82) grecos are quite a chip more than special.

@WornFrets that'southward a absurd guitar you got there, bask it.

What kinds of community fees are you seeing on the back end of the purchase? Those purchases can get out of hand pretty chop-chop from what I've seen. People win an auction for $10 on an item that'southward maybe worth $50, just they end up paying an actress $100 for shipping and community.

JDZ

@JDZ first-class post, thank you for the detailed info, Very helpful and insightful.
That CAR Fernandes looks splendid, it seems like that brand is frequently left out of the discussion with Greco/Tokai (at least to those of us non deep into this subject).

Thanks!

Greco, Tokai and Fernandes were the big three. Each had models at all levels cost/feature wise. Fernandes isn't likewise known, just there are countless of them available as well.

However, they weren't equally successful as Greco or Tokai in the number of high end models they sold. You simply don't see as many of their elevation models, simply they are just every bit prissy. Those three brands had very similarly equipped models at specific cost points.

Each brand has subtle pluses and minuses. You lot will find that the Revival serial Fernandes are considered some of the best Strats copies ever made. I dearest all three brands and others, would never hang best on any of them as each had some fantastic guitars.

Here's another Fernandes, 1981 RST-80 '54. Actually rare one every bit they didn't even offer them in natural in 1981. Information technology's the only one known to have come up.

Dissimilar guitar (1981 RST-80 '59), but here's the vintage braided material leads Fernandes used, they went above and across:

There are a listen boggling array of other brands that made traditional Strat models as well, trying to hit all different price points depending on the brand. At that place is also an endless assortment of limited run models exterior the catalogs and artist specific models.

Beyond the quality of the guitars from this era, one of their big attractions is their age. While I similar the case queens, I actually love the ones that have 40+ years of honest play clothing and aging. I honey the experience of an old guitar. No relic/false aging needed.

Here'due south another '81 Greco SE 700 I have:

yucatown

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my agreement was that word of (at to the lowest degree) lxx's instruments was never off the table. In that location are several active threads not counting this one regarding 70's guitars.
While some members have expressed their stance that, say, a 70's Fender isn't a vintage guitar, per the rules of this forum, they are considered "transitional vintage". The members who experience strongest almost this tend to only steer clear of those threads equally of late, which has immune them to focus on the content most important to them and has immune members who desire to post well-nigh "transitional vintage" guitars to do so without beingness chased off. It'southward been downright peaceful here.

I felt that this one was on the cusp enough, and was directly related to / inspired by a really good discussion in this forum from a few weeks agone about vintage Strats that included the most respected and knowledgable members of this forum.

Rather than derail what I find to exist a keen discussion and sharing of information, I would encourage you to study this thread or attain out to a moderator to take it moved.

I'chiliad neither trying to derail this thread nor disturb some sort of peace. I've gotten PMs from my posts hither essentially asking me to back off. Not the friendliest of approaches, but carry on.

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1986 Ingersoll 446 Runs Rough in High Gear UPDATED

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